On 2010-05-04, at 12:42 PM, Dietrich Rordorf wrote:
>> SH:
>> but the costs of Gold OA will differ radically before and
>> after universal Green OA has been reached.
>
> DR:
> I wonder in what way the cost of Gold OA would differ? Publishing a
> journal now with <100% Green OA and publishing a journal in future
> when we reached 100% Green OA will generate exactly the same costs.
With <100% Green OA (authors' self-archived refereed final drafts):
(1) most publishers still produce the print edition (with its costs),
(2) all publishers still produce the online edition (with its costs),
(3) the author's draft is merely a supplement, not the version-of-record,
(4) institutions are still paying sizeable journal subscription fees
and
(5) because OA is <100%, they cannot cancel most journals.
With 100% Green OA -- if and when the author's OA version turns out to fulfill all users' needs:
(5) institutions can cancel subscriptions (because all users can access the Green OA version),
(4) institutions can use a fraction of their annual windfall subscription cancellation savings to pay for the remaining costs of publishing, because
(3) the author's refereed draft will become the version-of-record, and publishers can cut costs by
(2) cancelling the online edition (with its costs),
(1) cancelling the print edition (with its costs)
and
(0) cancelling all the current costs of access-provision (distribution) and archiving.
The only remaining cost will be peer review (plus perhaps some editing).
> DR:
> Salaries for editors will be the same, costs for office space will be
> the same, marketing costs will be the same, administrative costs will
> be the same, costs for a publishing infrastructure (servers, softwares,
> etc.) will be the same, etc.
The same as what? Certainly not the same as the current costs of (0) + (1) + (2).
As far as I know, no OA journal publisher today has these minimized costs, because no OA journal publisher is providing the service of peer review alone. They can't, because the rest cannot yet be offloaded onto the global network Green OA repositories, filled with 100% of authors' final draft.
And this, in turn, is because most universities and research institutions (the universal providers of OA's all those articles) have not yet mandated Green OA. (And worse, some of them are spending money on pre-emptive Gold OA instead of first mandating Green OA.)
In summary: The only way to induce downsizing and minimization of publishing costs is first to mandate universal Green OA.
> DR:
> By the way, do not forget to calculate the real and opportunity costs of
> Green OA. One should include the researchers salaries into the calcs for
> their time spent on filling out online forms to put a PDF online (some
> 10 minutes per PDf file?). Then also include the opportunity costs: the
> researcher will not be able to spend those 10 minutes on productive
> research.
Do you really think 10 extra minutes' worth of keystrokes per paper -- it's actually closer to 6, but never mind -- distributed over all the planet's researchers, outweighs any of this?
> DR:
> Gold OA Publishers are already managing to publish journals at 1/3 of
> the costs that traditional, subscription-based Publishers and societies
> do.
Unless they are providing only peer review, they have not yet minimized publishing costs.
> DR:
> I do not think it is appropriate to constantly discredit the OA
> Publishers' work.
I don't discredit it. I am just explaining why it is premature, while most journals (especially the top journals) are still non-OA, Gold OA is still overpriced, and what is urgently needed (and has been needed for some time) is 100% OA, which can be provided by mandating Green OA (at the cost of 6 minutes worth of keystrokes per paper, distributed across the the planet's researchers!).
If I am "discrediting" anything, it is the short-sightedness of universities that commit to spending scarce funds on Gold OA fees today without first mandating Green OA. (Once they mandate Green OA, they are welcome to do whatever they see fit with their spare cash; but paying for Gold OA without mandating Green OA is no credit to their strategic thinking...)
> DR:
> In fact what is ridiculous is to pay OA fees to
> a subscription-based Publisher, so that this one can charge twice - once
> the author and once the reader. May be universities should start to
> forbid these kind of payments.
You're right, but, as I understand it, COPE is currently coping with that problem by committing to paying publishing fees only to pure-Gold OA journals, not to hybrid-Gold ("open choice") journals of the kind you mention. That's fine, but it still leaves the real problem, which is that of institutions pre-emptively committing to pay for Gold OA without first mandating Green OA.
"OA or mOre-pAy?"
http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/234-guid.html
Stevan Harnad
> Stevan Harnad wrote:
>> By all means commit available institutional and research funds to pay Gold OA publishing fees, and study the outcome -- but don't forget to mandate Green OA first!
>>
>> Not only will that generate far more OA at no extra cost, but the costs of Gold OA will differ radically before and after universal Green OA has been reached.
>>
>> '"Open Access: The Historic Irony"
>> http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/727-guid.html
>>
>> "Never Pay Pre-Emptively For Gold OA Before First Mandating Green OA"
>> http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/714-guid.html
>>
>> "On Not Putting The Gold OA-Payment Cart Before The Green OA-Provision Horse"
>> http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/630-guid.html
>>
>> "SCOAP3 and the pre-emptive "flip" model for Gold OA conversion"
>> http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/421-guid.html
>>
>> "Compact for Open-Access Publishing Equity [COPE]: Mistaking intent for action?"
>> http://poynder.blogspot.com/2009/09/compact-for-open-access-publishing.html
>>
>> "Putting Principled Support Into Practice: What Provosts Need to Mandate"
>> http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/117-guid.html
>>
>> Harnad, S. (2007) The Green Road to Open Access: A Leveraged Transition. In: Anna Gacs (Ed.).The Culture of Periodicals from the Perspective of the Electronic Age. L’Harmattan. 99-106. http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/13309/
>>
>> Harnad, S. (2009) The PostGutenberg Open Access Journal. In: Cope, B. & Phillips, A (Eds.) The Future of the Academic Journal. Chandos. http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/15617/
>>
>> Harnad, S., Brody, T., Vallieres, F., Carr, L., Hitchcock, S., Gingras, Y, Oppenheim, C., Stamerjohanns, H., & Hilf, E. (2004) The green and the gold roads to Open Access. Nature Web Focus. http://www.nature.com/nature/focus/accessdebate/21.html
>>
>> On 2010-05-04, at 11:30 AM, Jennifer McLennan wrote:
>>
>>> Open-access funds: Design and implementation on campus
>>> A SPARC Webcast
>>> Wednesday, May 5, 2010
>>> 1:00 – 2:00PM EST
>>> Registration is free, but required. RSVP by May 4 at http://www.arl.org/sparc/meetings/event_registration.shtml.
>>>
>>> An open-access fund is a pool of money set aside by an institution to support publication models that enable free, immediate, online distribution of, and access to, scholarly research. In late 2009, open-access funds gained prominence when a number of high-profile institutions signed the Compact for Open-Access Publishing Equity (COPE). COPE encouraged universities and research funding agencies to develop “durable mechanisms for underwriting reasonable publication charges for articles written by its faculty and published in fee-based open-access journals.”
>>>
>>> SPARC has recently taken a number of visible steps to support further exploration of the open-access fund model. SPARC’s activities include compiling data from every North American university with a fund and rendering it accessible for further analysis; creating a practical guide for institutions evaluating the implementation of an open-access fund; and publishing an online clearinghouse that includes frequently asked questions, case studies, links to further reading, and a variety of other tools to facilitate greater understanding and evaluation of open-access funds. Visit http://www.arl.org/sparc/openaccess/funds/index.shtml for access to these resources.
>>>
>>> On May 5, 2010, SPARC consultant and author of these new resources, Greg Tananbaum, will join us to explore why institutions are launching open-access funds, what practical and policy issues go into such a decision, how faculty and administration have reacted to these funds, what the results to date have been, and what SPARC is doing to evaluate and track the impact of these funds. Members of the advisory group that helped to develop the guide and SPARC resource, and whose experience in operating funds on their campuses has been an essential resource for others in the space, will also be available to field questions.
>>>
>>> Please join us.
>>>
>>> Open-access funds: Design and implementation on campus
>>> A SPARC Webcast
>>> Wednesday, May 5, 2010
>>> 1:00 – 2:00PM EST
>>> Registration is free, but required. RSVP by May 4 at http://www.arl.org/sparc/meetings/event_registration.shtml.
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------
>>> Jennifer McLennan
>>> Director of Programs & Operations
>>> SPARC
>>> jennifer -- arl.org
>>> (202) 296-2296 x121
>>> Fax: (202) 872-0884
>>> *******************************
>>> SPARC 2010 Digital Repositories Meeting
>>> November 8 & 9 - Baltimore, MD
>>> http://www.arl.org/sparc/media/09-0223.shtml
>>> *******************************
>>> Open Access Week 2010
>>> October 18 - 24. Everywhere.
>>> http://www.openaccessweek.org
>>> *******************************
>>> http://www.arl.org/sparc
>>>
>>> Visit the Web archive at <https://mx2.arl.org/Lists/SPARC-IR/>
>>>
>>
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Dietrich Rordorf
>
> --
> Mr Dietrich Rordorf
> MDPI Publishing
> Kandererstrasse 25
> CH-4057 Basel, Switzerland
> Tel. +41 61 683 77 35 (office)
> Tel. +41 76 561 41 83 (mobile)
> Fax +41 61 302 89 18
> Skype: d.rordorf
> E-mail: rordorf_at_mdpi.org
> http://www.mdpi.com/
>
> Stevan Harnad wrote:
>> By all means commit available institutional and research funds to pay Gold OA publishing fees, and study the outcome -- but don't forget to mandate Green OA first!
>>
>> Not only will that generate far more OA at no extra cost, but the costs of Gold OA will differ radically before and after universal Green OA has been reached.
>>
>> '"Open Access: The Historic Irony"
>> http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/727-guid.html
>>
>> "Never Pay Pre-Emptively For Gold OA Before First Mandating Green OA"
>> http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/714-guid.html
>>
>> "On Not Putting The Gold OA-Payment Cart Before The Green OA-Provision Horse"
>> http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/630-guid.html
>>
>> "SCOAP3 and the pre-emptive "flip" model for Gold OA conversion"
>> http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/421-guid.html
>>
>> "Compact for Open-Access Publishing Equity [COPE]: Mistaking intent for action?"
>> http://poynder.blogspot.com/2009/09/compact-for-open-access-publishing.html
>>
>> "Putting Principled Support Into Practice: What Provosts Need to Mandate"
>> http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/117-guid.html
>>
>> Harnad, S. (2007) The Green Road to Open Access: A Leveraged Transition. In: Anna Gacs (Ed.).The Culture of Periodicals from the Perspective of the Electronic Age. L’Harmattan. 99-106. http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/13309/
>>
>> Harnad, S. (2009) The PostGutenberg Open Access Journal. In: Cope, B. & Phillips, A (Eds.) The Future of the Academic Journal. Chandos. http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/15617/
>>
>> Harnad, S., Brody, T., Vallieres, F., Carr, L., Hitchcock, S., Gingras, Y, Oppenheim, C., Stamerjohanns, H., & Hilf, E. (2004) The green and the gold roads to Open Access. Nature Web Focus. http://www.nature.com/nature/focus/accessdebate/21.html
>>
>> On 2010-05-04, at 11:30 AM, Jennifer McLennan wrote:
>>
>>> Open-access funds: Design and implementation on campus
>>> A SPARC Webcast
>>> Wednesday, May 5, 2010
>>> 1:00 – 2:00PM EST
>>> Registration is free, but required. RSVP by May 4 at http://www.arl.org/sparc/meetings/event_registration.shtml.
>>>
>>> An open-access fund is a pool of money set aside by an institution to support publication models that enable free, immediate, online distribution of, and access to, scholarly research. In late 2009, open-access funds gained prominence when a number of high-profile institutions signed the Compact for Open-Access Publishing Equity (COPE). COPE encouraged universities and research funding agencies to develop “durable mechanisms for underwriting reasonable publication charges for articles written by its faculty and published in fee-based open-access journals.”
>>>
>>> SPARC has recently taken a number of visible steps to support further exploration of the open-access fund model. SPARC’s activities include compiling data from every North American university with a fund and rendering it accessible for further analysis; creating a practical guide for institutions evaluating the implementation of an open-access fund; and publishing an online clearinghouse that includes frequently asked questions, case studies, links to further reading, and a variety of other tools to facilitate greater understanding and evaluation of open-access funds. Visit http://www.arl.org/sparc/openaccess/funds/index.shtml for access to these resources.
>>>
>>> On May 5, 2010, SPARC consultant and author of these new resources, Greg Tananbaum, will join us to explore why institutions are launching open-access funds, what practical and policy issues go into such a decision, how faculty and administration have reacted to these funds, what the results to date have been, and what SPARC is doing to evaluate and track the impact of these funds. Members of the advisory group that helped to develop the guide and SPARC resource, and whose experience in operating funds on their campuses has been an essential resource for others in the space, will also be available to field questions.
>>>
>>> Please join us.
>>>
>>> Open-access funds: Design and implementation on campus
>>> A SPARC Webcast
>>> Wednesday, May 5, 2010
>>> 1:00 – 2:00PM EST
>>> Registration is free, but required. RSVP by May 4 at http://www.arl.org/sparc/meetings/event_registration.shtml.
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------
>>> Jennifer McLennan
>>> Director of Programs & Operations
>>> SPARC
>>> jennifer -- arl.org
>>> (202) 296-2296 x121
>>> Fax: (202) 872-0884
>>> *******************************
>>> SPARC 2010 Digital Repositories Meeting
>>> November 8 & 9 - Baltimore, MD
>>> http://www.arl.org/sparc/media/09-0223.shtml
>>> *******************************
>>> Open Access Week 2010
>>> October 18 - 24. Everywhere.
>>> http://www.openaccessweek.org
>>> *******************************
>>> http://www.arl.org/sparc
>>>
>>> Visit the Web archive at <https://mx2.arl.org/Lists/SPARC-IR/>
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Dear Dr.
>
> Thank you very much for your message.
>
> We are looking forward to hearing from you.
>
> Kind regards,
> Dietrich Rordorf
>
> --
> Mr Dietrich Rordorf
> MDPI Publishing
> Kandererstrasse 25
> CH-4057 Basel, Switzerland
> Tel. +41 61 683 77 35 (office)
> Tel. +41 76 561 41 83 (mobile)
> Fax +41 61 302 89 18
> Skype: d.rordorf
> E-mail: rordorf_at_mdpi.org
> http://www.mdpi.com/
Received on Tue May 04 2010 - 20:58:23 BST