* Hélène.Bosc <hbosc-tchersky_at_orange.fr>, le 16-11-10, a écrit:
> Bernard,
> Your worry about orphan works is not mine, because I think it
> doesn't prevent to reach OA.
Bonjour Hélène,
well ... you are unfortunately wrong
with the law as it was stated (it did not fare too well so far, but
the reason is not clear) works could be taken out of OA
if the rightsholder is not reachable.
did you read our Press release:
http://aful.org/sections/communiques/senat-organise-viol-droits-auteur
> But in Germany, some researchers are concerned by it. May I suggest
> you to join the European Network for Copyright in support of
> Education and Science (ENCES) which is working on it.
> http://www.ences.eu/
> Contact : http://www.ences.eu/contact/
> Please see this recent report http://iuwis.de/blog/hearing-orphan-works-german-federal-ministry-justice-report
thanks for the pointers
The main problem is that everyone is now working on the orphan work
concept without questionning it ... and it is nonsense.
amitiés
Bernard
> Amitiés.
> Hélène Bosc
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernard Lang"
> <Bernard.Lang_at_INRIA.FR>
> To: <AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: The First and Foremost PostGutenberg Distinction
>
>
>
> Thank you Jean-Claude
>
> But when you speak of the green and gold road, and their form of publishing,
> does it imply that the accessible works come with these rights granted ...
>
> or is it only seen as a way to get there.
>
> I means that if those rights are given, does it matter much how the
> work is initially made available.
>
> With apologies if my questions are silly. I am missing a link somewhere.
>
> I do need to clarify these issues, as France seems intent (I do hope
> they fail miserably) to have an orphan law, that would give control
> over works to collective societies, to manage and make money from
> (theoretically in the author's name). One of the explicit purposes is
> to kill free works as much as possible (unfair competition).
>
> This is already pretty bad.
>
> Next news is that the definition of orphan works ignores the existence
> of a licence or anything. Only reaching the author matters.
>
> In other words, the open access publications of an academic who has
> retired without leaving an address might cease to be open access.
> They did not say either that the law is only applicable to French
> works.
>
> So far it was only a law for still images, but they were very clear
> that the intents is to expend it to all things printable.
>
> Why still images .. because that gives them an excuse to get started,
> as photos are often used illegally by pretending the author cannot be
> found. But there are better way of solving that problem.
>
> As I want at least to have open access works excluded, I need a
> definition, that will be general enough without encompassing
> everything on the net.
>
> I have various references, but all in French.
>
> Bernard
>
>
> PS The promoter of that law explained to me that violating the moral
> rights of an author (by preventing use of his works without a mandate
> from the author) is OK if done with a state mandate, i.e., with legal
> permission.
>
>
>
> * Jean-Claude Guédon <jean.claude.guedon_at_umontreal.ca>, le
> 16-11-10, a écrit:
> >Bernard,
> >
> >I will simply quote the Bethesda statement on OA:
> >
> >
> > 1. Definition of Open Access Publication
> >
> >
> >An Open Access Publication[1] is one that meets the following two
> >conditions:
> >
> >
> > 1. The author(s) and copyright holder(s) grant(s) to all users a
> > free, irrevocable, worldwide, perpetual right of access to, and
> > a license to copy, use, distribute, transmit and display the
> > work publicly and to make and distribute derivative works, in
> > any digital medium for any responsible purpose, subject to
> > proper attribution of authorship[2], as well as the right to
> > make small numbers of printed copies for their personal use.
> >
> > 2. A complete version of the work and all supplemental materials,
> > including a copy of the permission as stated above, in a
> > suitable standard electronic format is deposited immediately
> > upon initial publication in at least one online repository that
> > is supported by an academic institution, scholarly society,
> > government agency, or other well-established organization that
> > seeks to enable open access, unrestricted distribution,
> > interoperability, and long-term archiving (for the biomedical
> > sciences, PubMed Central is such a repository).
> >
> >
> >I hope this helps you sort out these ideas.
> >
> >OA is more than simple and cost-less access; it implies the same kinds
> >of freedoms that a GPL ensures for software.
> >
> >Much of OA thinking was inspired by the free software movement.
> >
> >Jean-Claude Guédon
> >
> >Le mardi 16 novembre 2010 à 13:21 +0100, Bernard Lang a écrit :
> >
> >>
> >> Is there a distinction between papers that are just openly accessible,
> >> and papers that can be freely reproduced on other sites, or other
> >> media in your classifications.
> >>
> >> I am trying o identifi the concept of an open work. If it is simply
> >> something that I can access, that qualifies the whole of the Internet.
> >>
> >> But can I make copies, preserve it or present it in some other form.
> >> Who has enough rights so that the conditions of work availability can
> >> evolve with the state of the art in documents access, presentation,
> >> organization.
> >>
> >> What we do now in not the end of progress in publication. My concern
> >> is the future.
> >>
> >> Why do I worry : because I spend much time working on orphan works
> >> issues. I am trying to determine when the rightsholder is needed to
> >> ensure adequate life and survival of a work. Being accessible for
> >> reading is just not enough.
> >>
> >> Bernard
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> * Jean-Claude Guédon <jean.claude.guedon_at_UMONTREAL.CA>, le
> >14-11-10, a > écrit:
> >> > Indeed, Larry!
> >> >
> >> > And Stevan Harnad is quite right is refusing to equate Open
> >Access > > with
> >> > the Gold Road.
> >> >
> >> > In fact, Open Access is made up of two approaches: OA publishing or
> >> > "Gold Road" and self-archiving or "Green Road". And both roads are
> >> > valuable, arguably equally (although differently) valuable.
> >> >
> >> > As for Wallace-Evans, one only has to see how he characterized
> >Robert > > K.
> >> > Merton ("most pusillanimous"... ???) to realize that the
> >barbarians > > are
> >> > at the gates. It is a pity to see a priodical like Nation fall
> >this > > low.
> >> > I used to like reading Nation when I was a student.
> >> >
> >> > Jean-Claude Guédon
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Le dimanche 14 novembre 2010 à 10:21 -0500, Stevan Harnad a écrit :
> >> > > One can sympathize with Larry Lessig's frustration in "An Obvious
> >> > > Distinction":
> >> > >
> >> > > LL:
> >> > > "In 2010, [for David Wallace-Evans] to suggest [in a
> >> > > 6000-word review in The Nation] that [the Creative
> >> > > Commons movement] 'exhort[s]… piracy and the
> >> > > plundering of culture'... betrays not just sloppy
> >> > > thinking [but] extraordinary ignorance…
> >[and lack > > > of]
> >> > > respect for what has been written… This terrain has
> >> > > been plowed a hundred times in the past decade…
> >> > > Reading is the first step to… respect for what has
> >> > > been written... Reading is what
> >Wallace-Wells has > > > not
> >> > > done well."
> >> > >
> >> > > Larry tries to correct Wallace-Evans's 6000 sloppy words with 878
> >> > > carefully chosen ones of his own.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Let me try to atone for my own frequent long-windedness by trying to
> >> > > put it even more succinctly (20 words):
> >> > >
> >> > > Creative Commons' goal
> >> > > is to protect
> >> > > creators' give-away rights -- > > >
> >not consumers'
> >> > > (or 2nd-party copyright-holders')
> >> > > rip-off rights.
> >> > >
> >> > > (Reader's of the American Scientist Open Access Forum may
> >have a > > > sense
> >> > > of déjà lu about this since at least as far back as December
> >> > > 2000: > > >
> >http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/harnad/Hypermail/Amsci/1048.html )
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > > >
> >______________________________________________________________
> >> > > Harnad, Stevan (2000/2001/2003/2004) For Whom the Gate
> >> > > Tolls? Published as: (2003) Open Access to Peer-Reviewed
> >> > > Research Through Author/Institution Self-Archiving:
> >> > > Maximizing
> >> > > Research Impact by Maximizing Online Access. In:
> >Law, Derek > > > &
> >> > > Judith Andrews, Eds. Digital Libraries: Policy Planning and
> >> > > Practice. Ashgate Publishing 2003. [Shorter version:
> >Harnad > > > S.
> >> > > (2003) Journal of Postgraduate Medicine 49:
> >337-342.] and > > > in:
> >> > > (2004) Historical Social Research (HSR) 29:1.
> >[French > > > version:
> >> > > Harnad, S. (2003) Cielographie et cielolexie: Anomalie
> >> > > post-gutenbergienne et comment la resoudre. In: Origgi, G. &
> >> > > Arikha, N. (eds) Le texte a l'heure de l'Internet.
> >> > > Bibliotheque Centre Pompidou: 77-103.
> >> > > > > >
> >______________________________________________________________
> >> > >
> >> > > The persistent "piracy" canard calls to mind others like it,
> >> > > foremost
> >> > > among them being:
> >> > > "OA ≡ Gold OA (publishing)"...
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > > >
> >______________________________________________________________
> >> > > Harnad, S., Brody, T., Vallieres, F., Carr, L.,
> >Hitchcock, > > > S.,
> >> > > Gingras, Y, Oppenheim, C., Stamerjohanns, H., & Hilf, E.
> >> > > (2004) The green and the gold roads to Open Access.
> >Nature > > > Web
> >> > > Focus
> >> > > > > >
> >______________________________________________________________
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > -- > > Jean-Claude Guédon
> >> > Professeur titulaire
> >> > Littérature comparée
> >> > Université de Montréal
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >Jean-Claude Guédon
> >Professeur titulaire
> >Littérature comparée
> >Université de Montréal
>
> --
> Après la bulle Internet, la bulle financière ...
> Et bientôt la bulle des brevets
> http://www.strategie.gouv.fr/revue/IMG/pdf/article_HS7RL2.pdf
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-kahin/the-patent-bubble_b_129232.html
> la gestion des catastrophes comme principe de gouvernement
>
> Bernard.Lang_at_datcha.net ,_ /\o \o/ gsm +33 6 6206 1693
> http://www.datcha.net/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ tel +33 1 3056 1693
> Je n'exprime que mon opinion - I express only my opinion
> CAGED BEHIND WINDOWS or FREE WITH LINUX
>
>
>
--
Après la bulle Internet, la bulle financière ...
Et bientôt la bulle des brevets
http://www.strategie.gouv.fr/revue/IMG/pdf/article_HS7RL2.pdf
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-kahin/the-patent-bubble_b_129232.html
la gestion des catastrophes comme principe de gouvernement
Bernard.Lang_at_datcha.net ,_ /\o \o/ gsm +33 6 6206 1693
http://www.datcha.net/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ tel +33 1 3056 1693
Je n'exprime que mon opinion - I express only my opinion
CAGED BEHIND WINDOWS or FREE WITH LINUX
Received on Wed Nov 17 2010 - 02:36:23 GMT