I disagree with Stevan often. He can be infuriating. He has a tendency to
bloviate.
Nonetheless - he has been a FANTASTIC moderator of this list. I have sent
off many posts that have criticized Stevan directly, and he has never failed
to send them to the group. I can think of no other list that has not just
lasted for 10 years, but kept up a high level of discourse and relevance.
Stevan has my complete confidence. The list would die without him.
On Oct 7, 2008, at 5:37 AM, Stevan Harnad wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 3:37 AM, C.Oppenheim_at_lboro.ac.uk
> <C.Oppenheim_at_lboro.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > I totally support Jean-Claude's view.
>
> I can only repeat what I said before:
>
> (1) I am happy to put an end to my 10-year moderatorship of the
> American Scientist Open Access Forum and hand it over to someone else
> who is willing to do it, but only if it is requested by a plurality of
> the membership, not if it is merely requested by a few dissatisfied
> members.
>
> (2) The moderator's role is to filter postings, approving the relevant
> ones, and rejecting the off-topic or ad-hominem ones.
>
> (3) Apart from that, the moderator has no special status or authority
> (other than what may accrue from the substance of his postings), and
> may post *exactly* as any other poster may post, including the posting
> of quotes, comments, critiques, elaborations, rebuttals *and
> summaries*.
>
> By my count, there have not been many votes one way or the other, but
> of the few votes there have been, more seem to be expressing
> confidence in my moderatorship than those that are calling for me to
> be replaced.
>
> I have also been accused of of censorship, by both Jean-Claude and
> Sally, the charge being subsequently rescinded. If there are doubts
> about whether I can be trusted to post or tally the votes -- or, more
> important, if we are to spare the Forum the bandwidth of votes
> appearing instead of OA substance -- I am also quite happy to direct
> the votes to be sent to a trusted 3rd party for tallying, if that is
> the wish of the Forum.
>
> Stevan Harnad
>
> >
> > Charles
> >
> >
> > Professor Charles Oppenheim
> > Head
> > Department of Information Science
> > Loughborough University
> > Loughborough
> > Leics LE11 3TU
> >
> > Tel 01509-223065
> > Fax 01509 223053
> > e mail c.oppenheim_at_lboro.ac.uk
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Scientist Open Access Forum
> > [mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG] On
> > Behalf Of Jean-Claude Guédon
> > Sent: 06 October 2008 19:00
> > To: AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG
> > Subject: Re: American Scientist Open Access Forum settings
> >
> > What I note is that my messages sometimes appear back very late and I
> > wonder
> > why. It is this detail which caused my recent angry reaction.
> >
> > While we are on technical matters, I would appreciate two things from
> > this
> > moderator/actor:
> >
> > 1. That he should refrain from ever summarizing somebody's words. We are
> > all
> > versed enough in the art of reading to be able to survive without this
> > doubtful form of help. Besides, list moderators are not mentors or
> > paternal
> > figures. When the summary ends up distorting the original message, it
> > becomes reprehensible;
> >
> > 2. Since the moderator also intervenes as member in this list, he should
> > make clear which of his interventions are moderating interventions and
> > which
> > ones are participations in discussions. In the latter case, summaries
> > should
> > be avoided.
> >
> > I realize that Peter Suber manages a blog and not a list, but I really
> > like
> > the way in which he carefully delineates the pieces of news he wants to
> > convey, and how he announces his own comments. This is a very good model
> > to
> > follow. I would also add that Peter Suber refrains from using judgements
> > and
> > terms that occasionally raise the ire of readers such as me. When I read
> > a
> > sentence such as "Many silly, mindless things have been standing in the
> > way
> > of the optimal and inevitable" (Sept 28), I ask myself if the silly, and
> > mindless characterizations belong to this context. I also wonder
> > whether
> > the "optimal and inevitable" are objective, neutral terms. On Sept.
> > 30th, in
> > answering to me, Stevan made free to add: "What on earth does this
> > mean?".
> > Was that useful? In short, Stevan acts as if there was one truth, one
> > defender of this truth (himself). The list is "his" list and, on it, he
> > can
> > berate people at will (What on earth does this mean?). And then if you
> > resist and respond with a few equivalents to "What on earth... etc.",
> > then
> > you are accused of flaming, being vituperative, or whatever.
> >
> > I wonder how the same individual, at will and arbitrarily, can assume
> > the
> > trappings of a moderator or a debate without even making sure that
> > people
> > know which role is at work. It troubles me and, I assume, it should
> > trouble
> > many people.
> >
> > This said, Stevan has also done excellent work in setting up this list
> > and
> > maintaining it. This too should be recognized openly and loudly. But
> > there
> > is room for improvement.
> >
> > Jean-Claude Guédon
> >
> > PS I will not come back on this point. I leave the floor to Stevan or
> > any
> > other person willing to defend his present position as both actor and
> > moderator.
> >
> > Le lundi 06 octobre 2008 à 13:23 -0400, Stevan Harnad a écrit :
> >
> > Whether you do or do not receive copies of your own postings depends
> > on the setting you chose when you signed onto the American Scientist
> > Open Access Forum. I have checked Leslie's, Sally's and Jean-Claude's
> > settings. I note that both Leslie's and Sally's were set to "No
> > acknowledgements [NOACK NOREPRO]" -- the listserv's default option. I
> > have now changed them both to "Receive copy of own postings [NOACK
> > REPRO]". Jean-Claude's setting was already "Receive copy of own
> > postings [NOACK REPRO]".
> >
> > If you are not receiving copies of your own postings, you can modify
> > your settings at
> > http://listserver.sigmaxi.org/sc/wa.exe?SUBED1=american-scientist-open-a
> > ccess-forum&A=1
> >
> > Stevan Harnad
> > Moderator
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:29:09 -0400 (EDT)
> > Subject: RE: Jean-Claude
> > =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gu=E9don_is_wrong=2C_and_so_is_Zinath_Rehana?=
> > From: "Leslie Chan" <chan_at_utsc.utoronto.ca>
> > To: "American Scientist Open Access Forum"
> > <AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG>
> >
> > This has been a source of confusion for me in the past. It appears that
> > the listserv software is setup in such a way that the senders do not
> > receive a copy of his or her own postings. Is this the case, Stevan, and
> > can this be changed to avoid future confusion?
> >
> > Leslie
> >
> > > Apologies - I have no idea why my own original posting on the matter
> > > di=
> > d
> > > not
> > > appear on my own computer
> > >
> > > Sally
> > >
> > >
> > > Sally Morris
> > > Consultant, Morris Associates (Publishing Consultancy)
> > > South House, The Street
> > > Clapham, Worthing, West Sussex BN13 3UU, UK
> > > Tel: +44(0)1903 871286
> > > Fax: +44(0)8701 202806
> > > Email: sally_at_morris-assocs.demon.co.uk
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: American Scientist Open Access Forum
> > > [mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG]
> > > On
> > > Behalf Of Stevan Harnad
> > > Sent: 06 October 2008 15:08
> > > To: AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG
> > > Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Gu=E9don is wrong, and so is Zinath Rehana
> > >
> > > On 10/6/08, Sally Morris (Morris Associates)
> > > <sally_at_morris-assocs.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > List readers will have seen the positive comments on Stevan's
> > > > moderati=
> > on
> > > of
> > > > the list
> > > >
> > > > I am worried, however, about whether negative comments are being
> > > > censored.
> > > > Mine was
> > >
> > > May I suggest that before resorting to accusations of censorship, as
> > > Jean-Claude Guedon did, you consult the American Scientist Open Access
> > > Forum's archive
> > > http://amsci-forum.amsci.org/archives/American-Scientist-Open-Access-F
> > > o=
> > rum.h
> > > tml
> > > where you will see, as Jean-Claude did, that all your postings have
> > > appeared. Nothing has been rejected except another inappropriate
> > > posting by Zinath Rehana.
> > >
> > > Please distinguish the fact that I am often critical of your postings
> > > in my postings (as you often are of mine) from the question of whether
> > > or not they appear. They all appear, and when I do a critique, just as
> > > when you do a critique, I am merely a poster to the Forum, like anyone
> > > else.
> > >
> > > I will not, however, approve further postings accusing me of
> > > censorship from posters who have simply not bothered to check (or have
> > > not noticed) that their postings have appeared. This entire
> > > "censorship" thread has already cost the Forum a number of long-term
> > > members who have quit the list because they do not have the time for
> > > these off-topic exchanges. If you wish to inquire about a posting,
> > > send me an email. The Forum's bandwidth is not intended for this sort
> > > of thing.
> > >
> > > Stevan Harnad
> > >
> > > > Sally Morris
> > > > Consultant, Morris Associates (Publishing Consultancy)
> > > > South House, The Street
> > > > Clapham, Worthing, West Sussex BN13 3UU, UK
> > > > Tel: +44(0)1903 871286
> > > > Fax: +44(0)8701 202806
> > > >
> > > > Email: sally_at_morris-assocs.demon.co.uk
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > From: American Scientist Open Access Forum
> > > > [mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG]
> > > > O=
> > n
> > > > Behalf Of Subbiah Arunachalam
> > > > Sent: 06 October 2008 04:47
> > > > To: AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG
> > > > Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Gu=E9don is wrong, and so is Zinath Rehana
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would say the same thing as Alma Swan and Barbara Kirsop, but
> > > > being =
> > a
> > > > native speakers of English, they have said it far more effectively
> > > > tha=
> > n
> > > > I
> > > > could.
> > > >
> > > > Stevan, you are doing a great job. Do not get distracted from your
> > > > pat=
> > h
> > > > because of a few detractors. Your postings are very educative and we
> > > > i=
> > n
> > > the
> > > > developing world are greatly indebted to you for your tireless
> > > > efforts
> > > > to
> > > > democratise knowledge and open up the flow of information.
> > > >
> > > > Arun
> > > > [Subbiah Arunachalam]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > From: Ept <ept_at_BIOSTRAT.DEMON.CO.UK>
> > > > To: AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG
> > > > Sent: Friday, 3 October, 2008 18:17:30
> > > > Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Gu=E9don is wrong, and so is Zinath Rehana
> > > >
> > > > Surely all readers of this List will be grateful to the moderator
> > > > for
> > > > sparing us this objectionable posting and I subscribe absolutely to
> > > > th=
> > e
> > > > sentiments so well expressed by Alma Swan. The role of a Moderator
> > > > is =
> > no
> > > > easy path to follow and surely leads to turbulence within this
> > > > highly
> > > vocal
> > > > and dedicated community, each with their different backgrounds and
> > > > own
> > > > professional agendas. But as a person working in 'development', I
> > > > for
> > > > one
> > > > am grateful to Stevan for his frequent reiteration of the basic
> > > > points=
> > ,
> > > > as
> > > I
> > > > am sure are newcomers to the List. As a prime mover in the
> > > > evolutionar=
> > y
> > > > process towards free access to essential research, his tireless
> > > > effort=
> > s
> > > are
> > > > well appreciated by the information-starved world.
> > > >
> > > > Barbara Kirsop
> > > >
> > > > Electronic Publishing Trust for Development
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > Jean-Claude Guédon
> > Université de Montréal
Received on Tue Oct 07 2008 - 16:35:21 BST