Dear Richard Poynder,
Thank you for raising the issue about books and giving the standpoint of
the publisher Vedran Kordic.
I do not think this a new problem and the link to OA is not very obvious
to me.
Let us first ignore the fact that OA is concerned.
- The publisher is a very specialized one, which means that generally s/he
is not sure to sell many books and earn a lot of money out of it.
Generally when authors want to publish such books they have to pay for it
in advance. In France depending on the publisher, the author have to pay
between 1000 and several K euros. So 380 euros is fine.
- The only thing which is not correct is the contract signed between the
author and the publisher : it should explicitly mentioned a threshold :
above a given number of books sold the author should earn some money. This
limit is explicitly written in the contracts corresponding to the books I
mentioned : this level of sale is hardly achieved and the author never
gets money but it is fair to have it written.
Coming back to OA, to which extent is it related to it ? Because the
contents of the book is freely available online (which is by the way not
mentioned explicitly by the publisher) and can be downloaded in PDF format
? I never thought there were economic conflicts between selling a book in
a paper format and having its content freely accessible on the net. It is
not the same kind of people who are interested and once you want to get
the whole content it is fair (as a reader) to pay for it. It may be even a
good thing for a publisher working in a very specialized field to try mix
these two accesses (paper and online).
When I publish my book on OA issues in France, I had to pay in advance the
publisher (i.e. buy a given number of copies). I signed a contract which
forbid me to do anything (as usual). I had a discussion with the publisher
about the price of the book and would not have accepted a high price which
would have impede its reading. At the same time I deposit in an open
archive the full content of the book
(
http://archivesic.ccsd.cnrs.fr/sic_00001103/fr/). Every access way had
its own life : you can see how times people downloaded your electronic
version and you get figures from the publisher telling you how many paper
version were sold (of course the publisher may never sell enough books to
send you royalties back - and as an author you may never know exactly what
is the actual situation - commercial publishers do as they please and may
be rigorous when following the contracts or not).
I would be very happy to find publishers that will not find contradictory
to have OA access to the electronic content and toll access to the paper
version like Vedran Kordic. I think this kind of economic and publishing
model will spread in the academic world.
But coming back to our central concern in this list, I am not sure whether
it falls under our direct concern (anyhow thanks again for raising the
issue).
Cordialement
Thierry
***************************************************************
Le Jeu 6 décembre 2007 17:03, Richard Poynder a écrit :
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> There have been concerns expressed recently that the growing interest in
> "author pays" Open Access might be viewed by some as an opportunity to
> engage in "get-rich-quick" schemes. One fear is that opportunists might
> trawl institutional repositories for papers and then email the authors
> offering to publish them as chapters in "Open Access" books, for which the
> author is asked to pay a fee, but for which he or she gets very little in
> return.
>
>
>
> Indeed, it is an issue that has been raised in this Forum, and has led to
> fears that the practice could dissuade researchers from self-archiving
> their
> papers.
>
>
>
> The central issue, it would seem, is whether a publisher engaging in this
> activity plans to edit the papers and then publish them in a high-quality
> collection that is available both online (OA) and in print (for a fee),
> and
> at a reasonable charge to the author, or whether the publisher is asking
> authors to hand over money for an end product that might turn out to be
> little more than a poor-quality product consisting of miscellaneous papers
> thrown together in a haphazard, ad hoc manner.
>
>
>
> In other words, do such publishers intend to produce a valuable collection
> of papers on targeted topics written by the most appropriate authors (and
> on
> an OA basis), or are they asking contributors to hand over money for what
> might prove to be little more than a variation on vanity publishing?
>
>
>
> If the aim is the former then we should perhaps conclude that it is a
> welcome extension of OA to book publishing. If the latter, then the
> concerns
> that are being expressed by those being contacted by these publishers may
> be
> justified.
>
>
>
> One publisher who has been contacting academics and inviting them to
> publish
> their papers in Open Access books is Vienna-based I-Tech Education and
> Publishing. So I contacted the company and put the above concerns to the
> CEO
> Dr. Vedran Kordic. Below is his response, which was also copied to Stevan
> Harnad with a request that he comment.
>
>
>
> I think Dr. Kordic's reply also raises some interesting questions about
> the
> challenges faced by small publishers seeking to embrace Open Access,
> and/or
> extend the model into book publishing.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard Poynder
>
> www.richardpoynder.co.uk
>
> http://poynder.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>
>
>
>
> Dear Professor Harnad,
>
>
>
> Dear Mr Poynder,
>
>
>
> Mr Richard Poynder contacted us regarding the possible scam calls for the
> book chapters on "author pays" basis. He mentioned the link
> http://listserver.sigmaxi.org/sc/wa.exe?A2=ind07
> <http://listserver.sigmaxi.org/sc/wa.exe?A2=ind07&L=american-scientist-open-
> access-forum&D=1&O=D&F=l&S=&P=102280>
> &L=american-scientist-open-access-forum&D=1&O=D&F=l&S=&P=102280
>
> discussing this matter.
>
>
>
>
>
> Open access database:
>
>
>
> www.i-techonline.com or direct link to open access books
> www.books.i-techonline.com This database consists of 2 Journals,
> International Journal of Advanced Robotic Systems (now in the 5th year)
> and
> Journal of Humanoids (first number will be launched in March 2008), and,
> at
> the moment, 15 books covering fields of artificial intelligence,
> manufacturing & automation and robotics. Till end of the year there will
> be
> another 5 new books covering Soccer Robotics, Multiprocessor Scheduling,
> Swarm Intelligence, Petri Nets and Reinforcement Learning.
>
>
>
> To state in numbers there is more than 1500 authors published to date in
> the
> open access mode by us. There is no one of them thinking that this is a
> kind
> of online cheat or that we are working on pay-publish mode (see Quality of
> published material).
>
>
>
> Database content:
>
>
>
> This database is specialised on topics: artificial intelligence,
> manufacturing & automation and robotics. I and my colleagues working on
> ths
> project made a PhD on these topics, thus we are aware that there is not
> much
> free accessible high quality up to date material on the web. We had a
> chance
> to use a library of Vienna Technical University, subscribed on almost all
> first class journals (although they cannot allow to subscribe to all of
> them). My colleagues from other countries do not have luck to have such
> advanced source of up to date materials.
>
>
>
> Quality of published material:
>
>
>
> Published material can be downloaded thus the quality of published
> material
> is our primary concern (high transparency). Quality of materials given is
> the only way to become popular, to be "used" on regular basis. Otherwise
> stated we cannot allow poor designed material to be published.
>
>
>
> To ensure higher quality from the beginning (authors are first asked to
> submit chapter proposals, upon editor of the book decide whom to call to
> submit full chapter) we search for possible authors based on their quality
> of research, publishing history & quality of previously published material
> (ISI record for example). Thus our calls for contributions for books are
> closed one, only invited authors can propose a chapter for the book.
>
>
>
> Encountered problems by getting well known authors:
>
>
>
> They tend to ask money for publishing instead to pay for it. This is
> certainly a problem which we can partially avoid by calling them to
> publish
> free of charge.
>
>
>
> Content of books:
>
>
>
> All our topics are very narrow, for example we are preparing the book on
> Recurrent Neural Networks. This narrow specialisation ensures high
> concentration on the topic, seen only by high quality journal special
> issues. And I know from my own experience how difficult is to get such
> editions and how useful they can be.
>
>
>
> Online content / time delay
>
>
>
> Upon the book is published the same content can be downloaded from the web
> page, as a whole book or separately each chapter/paper in PDF. PDF format
> is
> nowadays a standard, ensuring wide compatibility with different operating
> systems/browsers. There is a time delay of max. few days between
> publishing
> of hard copy and online edition caused by our limited capacity/our other
> duties.
>
>
>
> Open access model:
>
>
>
> The authors willing to contribute have to pay a publishing fee in amount
> of
> 380 Euro. This is the lowest fee ensuring high quality book. This money is
> used to cover all steps in the production which cannot be done solely by
> our
> work, such as book editor work (although we have well known editors
> willing
> to work free of charge too), review process, preparation for the press,
> cover design, press of the book, package & postage of the book. Each
> author
> gets one exemplar of the book. All our books are hard copy pressed on
> premium quality paper. Also authors from low-income countries get
> discounted
> fee or the fee is waived (for example authors from India, we have also
> authors from Bangladesh, there is 380 Euro a little fortune).
>
>
>
> Book production Process:
>
>
>
> Selected authors are called to submit their proposals for the book
> chapter.
> Based on the material book editor decides which authors will be called to
> submit full chapters. Upon editor check the quality of material submitted
> and, if necessary rejects poor designed chapters and or propose
> modifications. Thus editor expertise in the field is directly correlated
> to
> the quality of the future book. This is the reason why we spend a lot of
> time selecting possible editors.
>
> Accepted material is then prepared for the press. There is 2 proof
> readings
> cycles, if necessary more then 2. Upon authors get a green light the book
> is
> pressed. Each author gets one exemplar of the book (included in publishing
> fee).
>
> Average time between first call for chapters and press of the book is 8
> months.
>
>
>
> Copyright:
>
>
>
> There is no "classical" copyright. We are asking authors to give us
> permission to press their material in our publications and to ensure that
> the submitted material is their intellectual property not copyrighted by
> other publishers and that they are solely responsible for the content not
> the editor of the book or publisher.
>
>
>
> Do we sell books?
>
>
>
> Authors of the chapters can buy additional copies of the book for 50 Euro.
> This seems to be high but these books are pressed in low batches and
> postage
> is included in the price. We offered paperback edition for only 18 Euro
> (postage incl.) too, but till now we do not have even one willing to order
> this edition, thus we do not produce it any more.
>
>
>
> Why 380 Euro?
>
>
>
> This is the lowest amount ensuring production of high quality book. We had
> books with more than 30 chapters, but narrow specialisation on topics
> lower
> the number of published chapters to average 22. We have editions with only
> 12 chapters too (now in final state before the publishing, to be pressed /
> online end of January).
>
>
>
> Transparency of the fact that there is a publishing fee to be paid:
>
>
>
> In the call for chapters there is a part directly stated that the fee is
> 380
> Euro per chapter. We ask our authors not to exceed 26 pages written
> according to the instructions for authors but we had chapters as long as
> 64
> pages. Also at online version of the call there is a part discussing the
> payment. There is no hidden parts or "small letters". Also each author can
> withdraw their chapter till 2nd proof reading cycle (the last one before
> the
> press of the book).
>
>
>
> I am aware that there is a number of "problematic" calls out there and
> that
> we do not have a name (such as PLOS have) but we are working on. Hopefully
> our results speak for us.
>
>
>
> Discussions such this one on AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM can have
> very negative response and put us in negative light. Thus I will be happy
> if
> you can check what we are doing (www.i-techonline.com) and give your
> answer/report on the forum. I do not know who started this campaign but I
> can bet that he/she/they do not publish by us.
>
>
>
> Dear Professor Harnad your work on open access is well known and your
> statement will help us to end this discussion. Also your comments on our
> work are more than welcome.
>
>
>
> I would like to thank to Mr Poynder who pointed us to this discussion.
>
>
>
> We were not aware that such discussions even exist.
>
>
>
> I will appreciate if you can give me other online sources discussing our
> work. I hope we have a right to respond.
>
>
>
> For any further question please contact me or Dr. Aleksandar Lazinica
> asap.
>
>
>
> Rg,
>
> Vedran Kordic
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Fri Dec 07 2007 - 14:03:20 GMT